How to profit from people who say no

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"How to pro t from people who say  no." By Frank Kern

     Over the last 16 years I've generated more than thirty million dollars in sales from people who mostly told me "no". Here are six ways I've learned to turn "no's" into sales online.

1. Most people say "no".  Know why? Because they're supposed to. Starting from childhood, we’re taught to be wary of people we don’t know …and to never make a fast decision when it comes to buying something. So to expect your prospect to go against the very habits and beliefs that are ingrained in childhood is foolish. That's why you should always ...

2. Get the email address rst.  If you know that most people aren't going to buy at rst, then o er them something valuable and free in exchange for their email address. This way, you can build a relationship based on trust and value rst ...and then make the sale. You've heard that before, but it's not what you think. This has nothing to do with creating a "conversion funnel" based on email marketing. In fact ...

3. "Funnels" as you know them are worthless. Most Internet Marketing “experts” will tell you to send tra c to a landing page, get a prospect to opt in, and then put them into a “funnel” designed to get the sale as quickly as possible. And that “funnel” is usually a series of emails - sent by an autoresponder - with each one directing the prospect back to the sales page. The reason this approach will fail you is because most people who opt in to any “funnel” simply will not buy initially …no matter how persuasive your copy is. The reason why is the simple human nature I just told you about. People aren't supposed to buy at rst. We're taught not to do it. But this is exactly what the “funnel” as you know it attempts to do. It’s exclusively designed to focus on the tiny percentage of “outliers” who defy human nature and buy quickly. …And it ignores (and usually irritates) everyone else. The real money is in the people who say “no”. 

Here’s how to get it: Instead of building a "conversion funnel", ...

4. Build multi-phased campaigns, all centered around “response indicators.” Here’s what this means: In every sales situation, there’s always an action or series of actions a prospect typically takes before he buys. We call these actions “response indicators”, and they are the key to your success. Example: In a car-buying scenario, people rarely buy a car without rst taking it out for a test drive. Therefore, the test drive is the response indicator. This is why when you go to a car dealership, the salesman’s rst priority is to get you to take the test drive. Here’s how this applies to you. Let’s say you’re sending tra c to a page that advertises a free report in exchange for the prospect’s email. And let’s assume that in order for the prospect to trust you enough to buy,  he needs to read the very report he’s opted in

for. The act of him reading your report is the “response indicator”  in this example.

Shocking Statistics Reveal Major Opportunity Research shows that over 50% of prospects never go and access the information they opt in for. They’re basically saying “no” to the very thing they just requested from you. And this means your chances of making the sale are immediately cut in half because statistically speaking, half of your prospects never made it through the rst “response indicator”. The way you cure this is by creating sequences in your campaigns who’s sole purpose is to simply move your prospect from one response indicator to the next …until he buys. And they way you do that is to …

5. Use Behavioral Dynamic Response in everything you do.

Behavioral Dynamic Response is truly the “holy grail” of Internet Marketing. It works by tracking what your prospects are doing in your campaign, and then dynamically sending them customized marketing messages based on their behavior.

Here’s an example. I recently created a 55 minute video designed to attract clients who were interested in having my company create their marketing campaigns for them. The video walked people through exactly how to create a winning campaign, and o ered them the ability to apply to speak with my o ce at the end. Here were the initial response indicators for the campaign: 1. To begin the video. 2. To nish the video. (So they would therefore see my o er). 3. Apply to speak with us about becoming a client. And with this in mind, I knew the campaign had to be designed to simply get as many people through those response indicators as possible. So the rst thing I did was to track how many people were beginning the video. If they didn’t begin the video, I would send them email reminders to go and watch it.

But there was a twist. I made it so their access to the video would only be available for three days. If they didn’t begin the video they opted in for, they would get email reminders telling them their access was about to expire. I was even able to dynamically calculate the date their access would expire, and merge that date into the reminder emails for added response.

So instead of saying, “your access expires in three days”, the email would say, “your access expires on Tuesday the 23rd.” This one little tweak alone caused just over 75% of the people who opted in for the video to actually go and watch it …which is head and shoulders better than the typical 50%.

That’s an immediate 50% increase over the “norm”.

 …All because we identi ed the rst response indicator and created a specialized sequence that tracked their behavior and responded accordingly. If all other factors in the campaign remained constant, we’d just achieved a 50% increase in sales from this one small tweak. But this was only the beginning.

The next response indicator was to get them to nish the entire video and therefore see my o er.

And That’s Where The HUGE Problem Was. This was a 55 minute video of me standing in front of a whiteboard talking about marketing.  So special e ects, no animation, nothing. It takes a special sort of masochist to endure 55 minutes of such torture. And that’s why I’m pointing this out to you. As you know, video is quickly becoming the primary way people consume content online. And if you’re using it to sell,  your viewers need to watch the whole video so you can make your entire case. That’s obvious. But here’s a real eye opener: According to Wistia,  less than half of video viewers make it through videos that are only two minutes long.

Two Minutes. Go longer than two minutes and it gets even worse.  I don’t think they even have research on videos as long as mine because they are so uncommon. Anyway, getting people to watch that entire 55 minute video was a huge challenge. But it had to be done because I didn’t make an o er until the very end of the video. (This was strategically deliberate, by the way.  I wanted to provide massive value up front …before asking them to do anything.  This has always worked well for me.)

Here’s how I accomplished the impossible, and how you can model my approach. Always track what your prospects are doing and respond accordingly. In this campaign,  I kept track of how much of the video they actually watched. If they le before nishing,  I’d send them emails telling them what they were missing …and sending them back to go watch the rest. In other words, I tracked their behavior …and then dynamically responded by sending them customized messages to get them through to the next step in the campaign. I had special follow-up sequences built to go out if they le before the 15 minute mark, the 30 minute mark the 45 minute mark, and the end. Each sequence was a little di erent …referencing what’d they’d seen and telling them what they’d missed …based on how far along they’d gotten in the video …and telling them to go nish it. By doing this, I was able to get 38% of them to actually nish the entire 55 minute video, which is literally un-heard of.

The Biggest Breakthrough Yet Remember, our three response indicators were to get them to: A: Begin the video. B: Watch the entire video. C: Apply to speak with my o ce about building their campaigns for them. And we’d done a great job of getting through the rst two steps. They were starting the video, watching the whole thing, and the feedback was amazing.

But there was still a problem. Even though they loved the video, only 2% of them who nished it were applying to talk to us about becoming clients. Now, at rst glance, this is acceptable because our services aren’t cheap and they’re certainly not for everyone. And I was very forthcoming about price in the video. So most people would be thrilled at a 2% “conversion rate” at our price point. But that wasn’t nearly enough.  We don’t settle for “acceptable” or even “good”.  We insist on exceptional.

Here's How We Got A 400% Increase In Paid Applications (And The Secret To Increasing Your Response). If the video got a 2% conversion, that means 98% of the people who saw it said “NO” to my o er at the end. But they didn’t say “no” because they weren’t interested, and they didn’t say “no” because they didn’t want the outcome I could help them achieve. If that were the case, they wouldn’t have stayed for the entire 55 minute video. So in a situation where you’ve got prospects who have been through your campaign, read your messages, seen your videos, and still say “no” it’s almost always for one of these reasons: First, there’s plain old fashioned laziness.  Many of your prospects won’t buy because they didn’t feel like getting up, nding their wallet, digging out their credit card, and then typing in all that information. Next, there’s procrastination. They’re interested and they want the outcome, but they’re distracted by something and tell themselves they’ll get to it later. And nally, there’s the need for more information. They’re almost ready to buy but they just need some extra push. They’ve got a question, or a concern, or might just need a little more time to make a decision.

These Are The People Who Will Make You The Most Money. Think about it for a minute. In this example, they opted in and watched an entire 55-minute case study video about the exact thing I’m o ering to do for them. You know they’re interested because they’ve behaviorally demonstrated it! This is the same as having a clothing store and being with a prospect who saw your ads, drove to the store, came in, and tried on a suit. As far as prospects go, they don’t make ‘em any better.  So these are the people you want to focus the majority of your e orts on. And the way you turn them into customers online is to …

6. Use Multiple Conversion Points. This is another major breakthrough. A conversion point is any point in your campaign where you ask for the order. This can be your sales letter, your webinar, your sales video … whatever. Most campaigns have only one conversion point. Here’s a secret.  In any campaign, 

More Conversion Points = More Money Period. So in this example, only 2% of the people who completed my video were applying to talk to my o ce. I wanted more, so here’s what I did. I wrote a PDF sales letter outlining the o er I’d made at the end of the video. The letter was thorough.  Detailed.  And had a strong call to action at the end. Then I emailed it to just the people who’d completed the video … but hadn’t yet applied. But I didn’t stop there. Like I told you earlier, Behavioral Dynamic Response is the holy grail of Internet marketing and you should use it in everything you do. So in this case, I tracked whether or not they clicked to download the PDF. If they didn’t download it, I had an email series that would remind them to go and read it. But I took it one step further. I made it so the PDF itself would only be available for a limited time …and I let the prospect know when their access was expiring. I was able to dynamically determine the expiration date and merge it into the emails they were getting so they’d say, “This letter is only available until Wednesday the 19th” and so on … with each user seeing a di erent date depending on when they’d nished the video. The result was a 

95.89% Conversion Rate! 95.89% of the people who watched the entire video responded to my email sequence about the PDF letter and downloaded it. This is literally unheard of in Internet Marketing.  And is has nothing to do with the copy in the emails. Instead, it’s working because Behavioral Dynamic Response is being used to lter out who the most interested prospects are (those who nish the entire video) …and then putting the most energy towards them. Incidentally, just adding this one step …

Immediately Doubled Sales! But remember …your sales are directly proportional to the amount of conversion points in a campaign. So I decided to double sales again by adding more conversion points.

Here's How I Doubled Sales Again. First - I shi ed my focus from “people who nished the video”

to “people who also downloaded the PDF”. Remember - you always want to be analyzing your prospects' behavior and focusing all of your energy on the ones who demonstrate they’re the most interested. So here’s what I did. I created a three-part video series that literally showed them exactly what had happened to them each step of the way in the campaign they were in. At the end of each video, I created another conversion point by asking them to apply for a consult with my o ce. And I used the same “countdown” techniques to get them to watch each new video as I’d used to get them to download the pdf. Naturally, the majority of them watched the videos and I got even more applications.

The Net Result. The Good Part: First, and most importantly, this campaign created massive goodwill with all the people who went through it. They felt like they were receiving very valuable and helpful content …not just a barrage of sales pitches. This is critical because it increases our chances of getting new business from them later on.  Plus it helped build our brand and position us as a good company to deal with. (And it’s just a cool way to do business.) The “Bad” Part:  It worked so well, we got too many applications. So we had to stop running it. To date, the applications we’ve received have resulted in $216,640.00 in new client billings (and counting).

Most of the people who went through this campaign were already on my email list. However, I also tested running some “cold” tra c to it from Facebook PPC.

That Tra c Produced A 239.41% Return On Every Dollar Spent. Because the campaign worked so well, I was only able to run the ads for nine days before I had to turn them o . Here’s how the numbers shook out: Total spend: $7,317.44 Total clicks: 7,651 Total Opt Ins: 2,318 Total Revenue Collected To Date: $24,836.00. For every dollar I spent on ads, I got $2.39 back …within the rst three weeks. Plus I got 2,318 new email subscribers and created tons of goodwill with them.  So I’m sure more will come from it.

Here's The Bottom Line. It’s true.

The fortune really is in the follow up. Just not in the way you’re used to.  You can’t bludgeon people with pitches and o ers and expect it to work. But if you have a truly dynamic campaign that tracks user behavior and responds accordingly …you can see your sales grow like nothing before. If you want something like that,

Here's Some Great News. I’ve set aside some time for my o ce to personally review your current sales and marketing process, and design a fully customized behavioral dynamic campaign for you ...FREE. This is a genuinely free o er, and there are no strings attached. In fact, it's even better than you realize. Not only do we deisgn the campaign for you, we also create a detailed blueprint of exactly how it works and give you that as well ...so you can deploy it immediately. If that sounds interesting to you ...

Here's What To Do Next. I’ve posted a short description of how this works, and my hidden motivation here. Go here to read it. Assuming you're OK with my "hidden motives", you'll want to proceed to the next step.

That's simply a short video that shows you what a typical blueprint and campaign diagram might look like, and walks you through exactly what will happen during your session.

This Is NOT What You Might Be Thinking. If you're skeptical and are wondering if this is some kind of "bait and switch", that's understandable. The good news is, it's NOT. In fact - it's quite the opposite. As you'll see here, I'm willing to pay YOU money in the event you feel this free service was a waste of your time. No strings attached. It's all spelled out in black and white here.

The "Catch" You've Been Looking For. There are two. First, we're unable to extend this o er to just anybody. There are some quali cations you'll need to meet - the "biggest" being that you're a real business, not a beginner, and not selling anything shady. The second is this is very time sensitive ...for a reason. We're a small company (by design) and can only o er a handful of these free blueprinting sessions each month. They're all granted on a rst come, rst served basis. So if you found this article helpful, and would like to see exactly how these types of strategies could improve your sales on a consistent basis, go here.

We've set aside some time to design a fully customized campaign for you ...using the exact methods I descibed in this article. ...And we'll do it for free. If that sounds like something that could help you, go here before all availability is taken.

Questions? Comments? Let Me Hear From You Below: Like

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Iacob Ioan-Adrian · CEO & Founder at AI Succes This is what I call, the true craftsmanship in any kind of business! And directed attention to customer needs! You're a genius, Frank! Like · Reply ·

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Bogdan Gabriel Ilie · Strategic Marketing Specialist at Strategic Business Profits Thanks for sharing this valuable "post" Frank. "Behavioral Dynamic Response is truly the “holy grail” of Internet Marketing." Like · Reply ·

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Thomas F. Ribar · Grafton, Wisconsin Wow Frank, you always hit it out a the park when it comes to stuff that makes ya step back and think every so often, and That's a very good thing. Thanks also for your unbridled honesty (again!). Tom Like · Reply ·

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Elad Daskal · College of Management Academic Studies Always love your stuff man! Like · Reply ·

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Mayur Jobanputra · Founder at The Coaches Room Great post Frank. I learn something from every one of your posts.

Great post Frank. I learn something from every one of your posts. Like · Reply ·

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Chris Wright · Owner and Founder at Productized Services Totally freakin' brill! Like · Reply ·

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Sean Vosler · Founder at Increase Academy looks like i'm going to have to make a guide on how to do this from a tactical perspective now that frank broke out the strategy ps. this article is 100% perfect example of selling insights, not solutions.. well done frank! Like · Reply ·

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Sweeney Daniel · Project Director at Effin Amazing I'd read it Like · Reply · 1y

Bonnie Purnama How do you know who watch how long on the video Frank Kern Frank Kern ? Like · Reply · 2y

Christopher Laverdure wistia Like · Reply ·

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Bonnie Purnama Christopher Laverdure : Wistia provide the details on which email address watch how many minutes of the video? Like · Reply · 2y

Ojo Olusegun · Internet Marketer at Internet Marketing i discovered he used infusion soft platform to dynamically customized those campaign @Bonnie Purnama Like · Reply ·

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Jonathan Heston · Works at Head Coach at Jonathan Heston Boom. Like · Reply ·

Matt Ganzak

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· Founder & CEO at MyCredits

Awesome post Frank! I recently put 3k people through a sales funnel, and had a dozen people complain about not receiving the free content. They never opened the emails that were sent to them. From now on, I am loading free content right after the sign up, and not waiting to ask for the sale. Like · Reply ·

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Kara Sakina · CEO & Founder at Saved Living Network Transformation in Progress Ritjert Swaab : Human- And Business Development what systems/software are you all using for these behaviora sequence emails? Like · Reply ·

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Jörg Schmidt · Rio de Janeiro, Rio de Janeiro Ritjert Swaab : Human- And Business Development try a faux highpriced offer on the thank-you page as well... i.e. offer your full package at list price with a real Add to Cart button... nobody will buy it but it establishes in their mind the enormity and value of your package without you making one of those hollow marketing claims how much your package SHOULD be worth. Hey it is a REAL sales page with a functioning shopping cart, who can argue that you are not selling the full package at that price?? Then in the follow-up sequence, discount the same package, for a good reason why they earned it, of course, and with tight scarcity... and see those package fly off the shelf. Like · Reply ·

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RJ Swaab Kara Taylor Sorry I missed your message.. I don't.. I'm not a fan of doing it the way Frank does it.. I prefer to have people re opt-in on an actual squeeze page.. Different people do it different ways.. Frank likes to automatize it using tagging in infusion.. I ( and Ryan Deiss as well) prefer to send people to new squeeze pages. That way you know they are really interested in being in that campaign. Plus.. you then don't need a 2K+ infusionsoft system seeing as any 20 buck autoresponder can do that Like · Reply ·

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Alan Jarrett · Writer/Author at Alan's Computer What about the "little guy" that doesn't do 6 figures in sales a year, and has been confused into thinking he is in the "Information Marketing" business which your video "State Of The Internet" clearly demonstrated is a myth? What do you offer them? Like · Reply ·

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Jaron Banks · Chiropractor at Russell Chiropractic Center Ritjert Swaab : Human- And Business Development How do I get started researching my audience and market? Like · Reply ·

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Chris Susan Beesley · Entrepreneurs at Chris And Susan Beesley Great post Frank filled with value and already see some tweaks we can make - thank you Like · Reply ·

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Beatrix Willius · Johannes Gutenberg-Universität Mainz How can I apply your principle to software? My conversion actions would be download, start doing something with the software. Usually, there is no email involved. Even if I ask users to enter an email address before downloading I wouldn't know if they started to use my software. Like · Reply · 2y

Ignacio Ezequiel Piaggio · Director general at Time & Emotional

Ignacio Ezequiel Piaggio Director general at Time & Emotional Management Hi Beatrix, I think you can make like a countess or give to the prospect a discount from your software if they respond or if you can give the 5 or 10 first who respond the software for free, and sell to other who is interesting and by the way, sell other product or services to the people who receiving the free gift Only reengineering you marketing in a map. Like I assume you do with the software before star to programing, I hope is helpful for you, Greeting Like · Reply ·

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Alexis Wilke · President/CEO at Made to Order Software Corp. I have the same problem Beatrix. What I have done that works best is find other websites where I put links to my software. This so called funnel principal is really no effective with software, at least so far I have not had any success. Maybe my software just sucks... Like · Reply · 2y

Edson Conselheiro If your product is a software, it can track where the user is going and what he/she is doing. Frank's strategy can be adapted to this situation, I think - but you'll have to modify the software to perform this tracking, of course. "If they didn't begin the video, I would send them email reminders to go and watch it". Perhaps you can give a score to your user, and promise something useful if he reach a "rewarding score". Yes, my English is not very good but I think you got the idea. If you have got the email of your user and he has not applied for whatever you are promoting, just send the remainders to go and use the software. You can use different scores in differente parts of the software, or use your own ideas. Like · Reply · 2y Show 3 more replies in this thread

Mpampis Papadopoulos · Works at Mpampis Papadopoulos Nice. Frank Delivered. Again. Like · Reply ·

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Angela-Elena Ifrim · Project Management Specialist at Expert DGI What I like the moast in your work Frank is that you managed to marry marketing with personal integrity. Thank you again! Like · Reply ·

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Esther Coronel De Iberkleid · CEO & Founder at NAPREX Natural Products for Export and TOOLS FOR L.I.F.E. Live Intenselly Fully Energized Brilliant!!!! Like · Reply ·

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Ricardo Weatherly · TCC Chesapeake Excellent case study, well worth the time it took to read through it. Like · Reply ·

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Franco Gonzalez · Like my Page at Franco Simple Freedom

Franco Gonzalez Like my Page at Franco Simple Freedom This works. We've been using this kind of psychology in our marketing for years and these subtle embedded strategies is what creates such a high LCV (Lifetime Customer Value) for us. Making those assumptions in your marketing and creating the multiple conversion points is gold. Like · Reply ·

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Caroline Kyriacou · Goalkeeper at Member of Team Fearless Thanks a mill Frank. This is fab. Enjoy a fab week Like · Reply · 2y

Yvar Belotte · Hodges University This information has been pure awesome-sauce. These cookie-cutter funnels will no longer be acceptable. Marketers must offer customized sales sequence experiences. This will cause Marketers to be more Client/Customer centric in their efforts. Like · Reply ·

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Aaron Burton Very good article Frank! Thanks! Like · Reply · 2y

Sharon Brown · Owner at Self-Employed It is brilliant. I want your team to lead my campaign. Like · Reply ·

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Curt Maly · Owner at Self-Employed This is really good content Frank. I am sharing this with all of your employees and contractors in our agency. Thank you, this is great. We are also going go share this with our tribe Thanks again with leading by example! Like · Reply ·

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Gail Hannaford I like what you've said Frank. I use Infusionsoft (well just the tip of the iceberg anyway) and know sequenced campaigns are the right approach ... it allows you to get into the mind of your prospect and see how they respond to directional information: follow the route you dictate, show they are committing something of themselves to you. 'Never propose on the first date' - yes, I like that! Like · Reply ·

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Lorraine Dallmeier · Say hello to me at Lorraine Dallmeier Hi Frank, I'd love to opt-in for this and just settled into watching your 12minute video with the intention of taking you up on the offer. Then I heard the word 'InfusionSoft' and unfortunately had to click away from the video. Do you offer this with any other system than InfusionSoft? Will you work with bespoke systems? InfusionSoft simply doesn't work for my business for a number of issues. You make some very valid points in the article above - thanks for sharing. Like · Reply ·

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Gary McCormick · Depew High School Hey Lorraine, have set-up similar stuff with Active Campaign, the middle of the 3 levels starts around $49/month for maybe 2,500 contacts/emails, but have gone with Voo Player for tracking video play stats as Wistia is pretty pricy like Infusionsoft, but trying to figure out how to move the data on each client into Active Campaign to make modifications on the fly If can figure out will let you know

to make modifications on the fly. If can figure out will let you know and should probably build a training on using them for 1/10th the cost of Infusionsoft & Wistia LOL. facebook.com/garymccormick101 so friend request me and PM me so I can get back to you once I figure out a more afforedable methodology Like · Reply ·

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Bronwyn Reid · Board Member at Queensland Rural, Regional and Remote Women's Network Gary McCormick following. Sent you a friend request. Like · Reply · 2y

Casey Choate · Akashic Records Institute Gary McCormick I just switched to Active Campaign. I'd love to know how do what you're saying! Like · Reply · 2y Show 1 more reply in this thread

Stewart Kelly · President (title) at ECommerce Enterprise Group LLC I'd have to agree Frank. Not only are most marketing funnels useless, they are frequently counter-productive; especially the ones that lead the prospect into the 4th degree burn of upsell hell. Like · Reply ·

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Jessica Sarapoff · Hypnothérapeute at Jessica Sarapoff - Ciel d'Yeu Now, it makes sense! Thanks for this great article, I'm keeping it in a safe place in my computer to be able to go back to it, and learn from a master! Like · Reply · 2y

Jane Alves · California State Polytechnic University, Pomona Thank you. So cool, actually it is genius. Like · Reply ·

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Justin Mandel · Published Author at PeeLess Genius! Plus, I love how your transparently pitching people to take action. ...Give em the love and they will love you right back... Like · Reply ·

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Apejua Olusegun · Business Coach & Mentor at Olusegun Apejua Brilliant One Frank. Setting Up these Entire system could be a lot Technical, How can i get a "system in a box" approach to setting this Up? Like · Reply ·

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